The list of changes:

• The ForF lobe: As discussed in this thread, the ForF lobe was not working properly. The changes aside the ForF lobe are: This updated breeding script*, which makes it possible for creatures of different species or same sex, to receive positive input from eachother. The second change is that these norns get lonely easier, so there's more input when no sex chemicals are involved.
• The elevation lobe: In this thread, fuzzie mentioned the elevation lobe. Creatures determine the distance of an object by means of the vision lobe, which is basically the X axis in their brain. As that works, creatures only know how far to the left or right an object is, but not how low or high. The elevation lobe is the Y axis, and makes the brain able to determine that the object is not as interesting as the object that they can reach.
• The combination lobe: I was always a little annoyed by creatures trying to push food and eat gadgets when hungry. The tracts leading from the drive lobe to the combination lobe overwrote each input received with new input, instead of adding to it. Drives are reduced in scripts by the means of chemicals, and by stimulus genes. Stimulus genes however, are the only chemical changes that are learned. Because there are alot of factors involved, the input seems to be a little random, and creatures that learned not to do things (by experience or by punishment) are hard to teach otherwise. This led to creatures unwilling to perform the action that would satisfy their need. Odd learning can still happen, but I'm not God - ascribe it to their personality.
• Pose genes: Pose genes that mutate will usually result in poses that aren't realistic, create limps, and in the worst case disappear altogether. I've set the pose gene to not mutate, and lowered the degree to 0, as mutations still happened quite frequent, due to stress and other non genetic sources. Duplicating and deleting the genes is impossible too, in case they are ever bred with other breeds**.
• Navigational genes: I had problems with these while running my wolfling run; my creatures wouldn't go up or down anymore, because those genes had mutated. Set them to no mutating either.
• Elevator starvation/button obsession: Ratboy noticed that norns were starving at the top of the elevator. This turned out to be a conflict between an instinct that told norn pushing elevator reduced boredom, a stimulus that didn't reduce the boredom, and the wait chemical that zeroes out all other drives. Setting the instinct on carried solved this problem. Again, this is done to avoid severe problems while crossbreeding**. I reduced the button obsession by lowering the 'push buttons when bored' instinct from -.5 to -.25.
• Chemical reactions/immortals: The genes that turn chemicals into energy can no longer mutate. Otherwise, it is possible to et a mutation that will allow a creature to go through life without eating. They can still get more or less energy through other genes, but they will still need to get that energy from somewhere. All the genes in the time line organ cannot mutate either. Except the initial concentration of life, and ofcourse the half life of said chemical. This way, the length of their life can still mutate, without the risk of immortals.
• An odd loop: After improving their memory, norns got into a loop where they'd express their crowdedness, and get 'express food/fruit' advised. The 'swearing let's off steam' stimulus reduces their crowdedness when they'd express, while the 'heard creatures speak' stimulus raised their crowdedness. This caused a feedback loop in the tract which made them stand around, expressing their crowdedness. I fixed this by making the crowded chemical in the 'swearing lets off steam' gene silent, and thus not learned.
• The Typo: This one takes the cake, I even had to look twice to see it. Ratboy found the needle in a haystack. In gene 262, instead of converting the drive into the backup drive, it converts pain into the 'hungry for protein' backup drive, reducing their pain, and eventually raising their hunger for protein.

* This script will not change anything for your existing breeds. You can just overwrite the old one, and start a new world, or inject it into an empty one.

** Because this involves a brain edit as well, it is not recommended to breed them with creatures without the lobes. They will lose their advance when crossbred.

There is still something else that baffles me: Sometimes, creatures tell you that they want to 'eat elevator', while looking at themselves (you won't see the green arrow because it's under the red one). I have checked their brain; the right neurons fire, while they're saying 'eat elevator', and looking at themselves, they really want to eat seed/fruit/food. If you hold some food near them, they'll snap out of it, and when it happens in a metaroom with growing edibles in it, they'll usually snap out of it on their own. I checked their scripts - usually there's always a script running, perhaps with a slight pause, but everything requires a script. But when this happens, no script is fired - except sleeping and fainting - until there's "new input". I've checked the elevator and door scripts - but found nothing wrong. It doesn't only happens with elevators and doors though, I have seen it happen to self, and once even with toy. It happens less with this genome, but it still doesn't solve the cause. Any ideas would be welcome

Here's the genome, and the starter pair for Mac users, seeing as it is still for betatesting

On a side note: I want to mention Danikat as well, as I've used her IQ-test idea to determine their capability.

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I'll start looking at theese right away. I didn't catch my train today so I have absolutely nothing else to do hehe

I'v used the starter pair up to now because I don't know how to use the other file. Do I have to download something to use it?

Use the Egg Maker.

http://www.creatures.de/c3/agents/c3eggmaker.zip

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Thank you

You're welcome

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I usually solve the elevator addiction problem with another edit Ratboy suggested a while back.

First, I set the half-life for "Wait" to 31 (21?), then make a new chemical reaction.

Its half life is 19, and it goes like this:
8 Boredom + 1 Wait = 1 Wait + 8 Boredom Backup.

It converts the boredom into boredom backup, thus making the norn lose the boredom, and then the norn loses interest in the elevator when the wait drive is gone. Then they leave. When they get bored again, hopefully they won't be near an elevator.

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Yes I know, but that solves the symptom, not the cause. The problem is that using the elevator doesn't reduce boredom, so making a norn think it does is rather dangerous in combination with the wait chemical. But the wait chemical is vital for making creatures wait for the elevator to pick them up.

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Remove the instinct? If you don't mind, I'm gonna use your genome as startout for some of my own experiments. I will not put those experiment up, and if anyone ask i will say that the norn orginates from your genome. Just so you know, and can say no.

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I have set it on carried, so that if these guys are ever crossbred, there won't be any problem with missing genes. It's sort of a placeholder

As for experiments, that's fine, as long as you don't put them up 'n stuff. And if you report back here on what you think of this genome. If this genome gets some positive feedback, I'll wrap it up, add it all to all the genomes, do packaging, etcetera.

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I have been running a world with just these guys in it for a day or so now. I posted in the other ForF thread. Should I copy and paste it over here to this thread, too?

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